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Perseus
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 244
Location: Farchant, South Germany
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 Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:27 am Post subject: Significant color differences between B5 and B4 |
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[Bibble5pro-2.1 / BibblePro-4.10 / OpenSuSE-11.1]
Hello all,
attached is a screen shot for my Eizo CG241W Monitor
with B4 and B5 side by side. Both use the exactly same
raw image and ICC profiling for the monitor with Adobe1998
as the working space. Both images are unprocessed, in B5
"Everything off" was selected, also.
FWIW, the white balance as set by the camera differs
some hundred degrees Kelvin in both program versions, also!
Now, can someone please explain the significant color
differences? I had expected, that unprocessed raw
images with the same color space, profile and monitor
would look identically. What's my fault?
Regards,
Frank
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http://frank-stefani.de --- photo journalist, photo artist
BibblePro-4.10.1 / BibblePro-5 PV3 @ OpenSuSE-11.1 Linux (AMD 64-bit dual core) |
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boogie
Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 134
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:34 am Post subject: |
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Enjoy it.
The B5 picture looks a lot more natural 
regards
boogie
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artsalvation
Joined: 01 Feb 2009
Posts: 243
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:39 am Post subject: |
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Wow! b5 looks way better!
Don't worry; be happy...  |
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cvermillion
.gif)
Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 4949
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:43 am Post subject: |
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Bibble 5 has major changes to the processing pipeline. It's to be expected that Bibble 5 results will look different from Bibble 4 results.
-Colleen
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d_e
Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 53
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:10 am Post subject: |
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I fore one B5 looks worse. Because on my computer, the skin above her nose is yellow. As I look further up her forehead suddendly goes from yellow to red.
Am I the only one noticing this? |
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afx
Bibble Expert
.gif "Bibble Expert")
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 3981
Location: Munich
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| d_e wrote: | I fore one B5 looks worse. Because on my computer, the skin above her nose is yellow. As I look further up her forehead suddenly goes from yellow to red.
Am I the only one noticing this? |
Well, you are looking at a screen shot, not an image color corrected for your monitor, so no quantitative analysis is possible. The differences you see can look quite different on another screen.
cheers
afx
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sRGB clipping sucks |
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Perseus
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 244
Location: Farchant, South Germany
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:36 am Post subject: |
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@boogie, artsalvation: I'm not sure whether it's better looking as I am
used to the (unprocessed) look of RAW images as they were in B4.
Consequently the way and amount of color correction will change in
my workflow. After a complete switch to B5 this will not be a problem
but for the time being, test driving B5 while doing production with B4
will confuse me.
@d_e: As Andreas (afx) states, you cannot compare images on
different displays (or prints) on a heartfelt base unless all (ALL!)
participating systems are perfectly color managed (including web
browsers )
@colleen: I expected some answer like this. I hope there will be an
import version from B4 to B5 that keeps the image look of processed
B4 images consistent after import with B5. It would be horrible to have
to reprocess ten thousands of production ready B4 images after a switch
to B5. If a customer needs eg. a different crop of a 2 year old archive
image trouble may arise ..... 
Regards,
Frank
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http://frank-stefani.de --- photo journalist, photo artist
BibblePro-4.10.1 / BibblePro-5 PV3 @ OpenSuSE-11.1 Linux (AMD 64-bit dual core) |
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cvermillion
Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 4949
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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You don't have to reprocess images. Bibble 4 will run alongside Bibble 5 without interference, so you would just open them in Bibble 4 and redo the crop. That way it will be rendered exactly like the image you originally delivered. You can still manage those images in the Bibble 5 catalog even though you process them with Bibble 4. Bibble 5 won't change the .bib files but it will carry them along when moving/copying/renaming.
-Colleen
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boogie
Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 134
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Perseus wrote: | @boogie, artsalvation: I'm not sure whether it's better looking as I am
used to the (unprocessed) look of RAW images as they were in B4.
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I see a few yellow tint (skintone) in the B4 conversion, and a few more contrast in the B5 one.
regards
boogie
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d_e
Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 53
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| afx wrote: | | d_e wrote: | I fore one B5 looks worse. Because on my computer, the skin above her nose is yellow. As I look further up her forehead suddenly goes from yellow to red.
Am I the only one noticing this? |
Well, you are looking at a screen shot, not an image color corrected for your monitor, so no quantitative analysis is possible. The differences you see can look quite different on another screen. |
Yes, that's true to some extent. It's just that there's a sudden change of hue in the JPEG. This should be visible with any profile in any colorspace. Have a look at it with your favourite bitmap editor and measure the hue changes. Because it's a relative difference it'll show up wether or not a browser is color managed.
I'm just pointing this out because I noticed this effect in many of my own processed images. I'm using both uncalibrated screens and screens with colour profiles. My workflow outputs sRGB JPEG files.
Do you see the same thing as I do? Do I have to calibrate my eyes? |
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artsalvation
Joined: 01 Feb 2009
Posts: 243
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Perseus wrote: | @boogie, artsalvation: I'm not sure whether it's better looking as I am
used to the (unprocessed) look of RAW images as they were in B4. |
Maybe off base, but I think b4 makes it too easy to overcook...
The left (b4) image is already about there, before doing anything at all. |
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afx
Bibble Expert
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 3981
Location: Munich
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| d_e wrote: | | Yes, that's true to some extent. It's just that there's a sudden change of hue in the JPEG. This should be visible with any profile in any colorspace. Have a look at it with your favourite bitmap editor and measure the hue changes. Because it's a relative difference it'll show up wether or not a browser is color managed. |
Of course you can see a difference.
But what difference do you see? Measuring it is nonsense as the reference point is missing.
For me there is no yellow spot in the posted B5 image, but potentially a lack of red. But that does not mean anything. Only when using his source images in B5 and B4 on my screen I could really make a quantitative statement about the difference.
Or about using my own images, which are usually more contrasty and cooler in B5 than in B4.
cheers
afx
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